This is about Fortuna Estates aka Fortuna Land
Wednesday, 6 May 2009
D0K1930@yahoo.com (change the zero between the D and the K to the letter O)
I'm sorry about that!
Apart from this I have no new news to report relating to our lost savings.
Has anyone tried prayer?
Sunday, 28 December 2008
This is going as a blind cc to all with whom I have corresponded in the past month re Fortuna.
I have just seen this link;
- perhaps a bit of a rehash but it gives me the idea that we must really say a final "hasta la vista baby" to our money.
If anyone thinks there is a glimmer of hope in the future from new developments I would appreciate a shout. Indeed would be happy to meet-up for a jar if you happen my way in Jerez. My email address is given lower down on this blog.
Monday, 8 December 2008
This looks like the last word!
The Spanish land investment scam run for years by Fortuna Estates has finally been busted, with the Spanish fraud squad swooping last week on several office in Mijas and Fuengirola, arresting at least 2 people, and questioning 20 others. This could be one of the biggest Spanish property scams to date, with hundreds, if not thousands of British and Irish victims. The Spanish authorities estimate that Fortuna Estates made at least 65 million Euros out of this fraud.
Other links (I collected but havnt bothered to look at - except the first)!
Sunday, 7 December 2008
THE LOST FORTUNE
I am posting this on my rather boring blog on this subject http://fortuna-don.blogspot.com/ and also sending it to myself with a bcc to everyone I have previously had any contact with by email. This is why it is coming to you (I have not sent it to two people I identify not to be on the side of the angels – two addresses supplied by Arshad in his (in)famous email of 13 November.)
I woke up today to find the Multiply Group OannaFortunaland had been cancelled. This did not surprise me too much as it has been dormant for a number of days, or to be more direct the “owner” of the group had neither posted nor approved a dozen new members, so I imagined he had been “detained” in one way or another!
In my heart of hearts I have said goodbye to my €29,000!! As this is so painful I was prepared to pursue the matter until I really reached the end of the rainbow. So did a few other people who may see this. For me it was part of the “grieving process”!!!
For some time I have been speculating that Mr Sherlock was actually part of, or ex-part of, the Fortuna family – perhaps someone who felt aggrieved for one or another reason. Perhaps he was the illusory gentleman who put his financial affairs in the name of his wife who later dumped him!! PTL I still trust my wife not to be so dastardly!
However may I draw your attention to this item posted by Señor “Damian” of the legal firm Vazquez Abogados in
This is a tad complex but to abstract it into a few words, it confirms what others had suggested (and which I personally had always rejected as being totally unimaginable!!):
The whole Fortuna deal was a complete scam from the start to the finish and it worked like this – non Spanish concerns bought cheap bits of farm land, put it in hands of purpose built Spanish companies. Then the Fortuna Company (acting as an agent for the owners of the shares of these companies) sold shares in these companies purporting them to really be shares in valuable land…. Etc etc. Damian goes on to explain that a bunch of people are being investigated for fraud and so forth.
If this is true (and probably is!) it would explain why personal visitors to the posh Fortuna office were taken out to lunch and then to see a bit of prime beautiful land that actually bore no relationship whatsoever to land that may (or may not!) have been owned by the company in which they were proposing to buy land in!! In this case the two or three “senior land consultants” must have been part of the fraud (but the junior “salespersons” were probably not).
I repeat what Captain Scott wrote in his last message on the way back from the Pole: “May God help our people”.
As this is the only forum I know where people can share their views please feel to post comments. I am, if I can work out to do it, authorising the people who get this email by blind copy to post a blog entry (as distinct from a comment). It may take a day to work out how to do this
I will also be happy forward an e-mail from you to all of you (as a bcc group) if asked to do so. My email address is
Thursday, 4 December 2008
And Good Bye because I have learnt a lot of new information about our situation which seems inappropriate to post publicly.
Anyone who cares to email me with new doubts and questions will get a response asap and I will try to be as helpful as possible. My email address is (please change the digit zero after the D to the letter O):
Monday, 1 December 2008
Trying to tidy my mind
What follows here started out being a reply to an email I had received but it turned into an exercise to clean out my own mind! Thoughts to clarify for my own benefit if I really wanted to worry about this any more or did I just want to put it all behind me. It is hard to say goodbye to €29,000 but that is the way it looks like it is going to be! I hope these notes may help other people put this into a better perspective. On reflection I was incredibly stupid to buy land without seeing it, and without asking to see a formal plan and without looking at it on Google Earth.
Thanks for your latest news which really was news to me! Let me explain
You and I got alerted to join the Multiply forum by an email from Arshad on 13 November which said:
I’ve had some communication with you over the past 5 months in connection with Fortuna following my post in www.askaboutmoney.com. All of you have written to me over this period as investors, like myself, concerned about the security of your investment.
I have heard that Fortuna, possibly trading as Ohana have closed their Spanish operations. This is clearly a serious cause of concern and we MUST now take appropriate action. I am happy to coordinate any action we take. There are 13 of us here and joint action will be appropriate and most effective. I was advocating this course of action 4 months ago but some of you, rather surprisingly discouraged me to proceed with this course of action. I sincerely hope that this was not done for any ulterior motives.
My suggested course of action now:
· Confirmation from each of you that you are investors in Fortuna/Ohana
· Confirmation that you wish to be part of a joint action
· Sharing of the knowledge that each has about Fortuna/Ohana and the individuals involved
· Agreement on approaching appropriate authorities in Spain, Cyprus and the UK
· Agreement on appointing legal advisors to proceed and to share the costs.
· I will kick things off immediately upon your responses.
Good luck and best wishes
So did 10 other people and he gave us all each the others’ addresses in his cc line thus:
------------------DELETED FROM THIS COPY_______________
Of course I did not know these people but I was able to determine that at least 8 were on the side of the angels and not the devils, by which (of course) I mean “kosher”!:
1. David Stone, I knew the firm and where he worked from my family connections near Navan, Co Meath.
2. Fintan Moran, I assumed anyone with an Allied Irish Bank domain address was not a crook in Spain
3. Trev Woods, I happened to know a lot about him and where he worked and lived..
4. John Frith, I thought I knew him but he turned out to be another John Frith. But this one did turn out to be okay.
5. Sufian Salah from SABIC just had to be okay as I already knew a lot about SABIC!!
6. I knew who Kate Little was and she later confirmed it - a housewife in Bristol.
7. I had read Mick Beumont’s post on The Motley Fool and he seemed a genuine investor too.
8. Steve Oliver was quite okay - he wrote a letter to Arshad that could only have been written by a genuine investor.
9. Joey Carolan had an Irish address so I assumed he had to be okay!
10. Gerard, anyone called Gerard Doyle even at Hotmail has to be okay!.
This left Gustavo, and Nick Clifford who I knew nothing about.
Arshad’s email was followed during the next 4 days by a spate of replies from David Stone, Fintan Moran, Steve Oliver, Gustavojota (Gustavo J?) and ended with an offer by Arshad to collect somewhat sensitive information such as Tax ID’s and so forth – I, together with 5 or 6 other people, decided not to do this for reasons of security. This was the last communication from Arshad. Some further communication was via the Multiply forum. There has been little feed back from the forum – just some new posts from new people.
However, from these posts a few items leapt into view:
Fintan said: Just talked to Diego Fernandes he says Danielle and James closed the office and ran away with any money!. (I had no idea who Diego Fernandes was and I later assumed James was James Sathasivam (not James Cottrill).
Arshad said: In this case we need to trace the assets. I am told the land was registered in the investors names. However if the perpetrators have run away, we cannot do much and the police need to get involved. I found that a very strange statement from an accountant - if Arshad had taken a look at his escrituras he would have seen just how the land was registered. I have never heard of a Spanish notary being overtly dishonest – it is inconceivable as they have too much to lose. They might make a mistake by not checking something that they should check. Thus, IMHO, any Spanish notarised escritura must be totally reliable.
TaoTao/Gustavojota/Gustavo J? said: I have been insisting for the past couple of years that this whole business with Fortuna Land and Oanna has been a huge SCAM, I am working on this with the FSA, and a couple of their staff are investigating.
I am also in contact with the Spanish Police, and I am NOT going to let them get away with this SCAM.
I have been documenting every single contact and meeting I have had with the likes of Raymond Bruce Pyper, James, Samuel, Gyorok, Phillip Cottrell, Martin Currie, Mrs. Saisbury, and others. We have reported them and pressed charges against ALL of them. (This last sentence means he has formally accused all these people of a crime and produced some prima facie evidence to support the accusation!?!?)
Then as soon as we and the others signed up to the forum I made a fatal assumption. I assumed that the Moderator of this group was Arshad!
I assumed he had started it with the “Investigator1” screen name and if one looks at this profile he gives his alias as “Sherlock”. So it only needed a further small leap of assumption to think that
Asshad Chaudhry = Investigator1 = Sherlock
I noted that this might be a wrong assumption and tried to clear the matter up by including the query in a post.
And also in a PM to Sherlock I said: Please clarify. I assumed you were Arshad of HCA Arshad Chaudhry (Ltd Leeds) but living in Manchester. Could we have a sort of explanation as to who is who please?
I also sent Arshad an email on 14th that started:
I imagine you are Sherlock!
How you find the time to do so much and run a few businesses too amazes me. I have been retired (for YEARS!) and every day is far too short.
I have just posted this below) on the Multiply group blog. I will try to come up with something more useful later. You obviously know more than anyone else. If these people removed their hard drives at midnight I think the best way to get a list of their investors might be to get at the records of their lawyers or the notary's via a court order. Registered titles are on public record so far as I know……...
In the absence of a response I went on assuming this was a case of “three in one” – a holy trinity.. Until I did a “forensic” examination of Arshad’s writing style compared with Sherlock’s writing style, which indicated I was obviously wrong!!
If one looks at the list of members of the group, one certainly sees Investigator1 is the “Admin” of the group. His profile says he lives in UK. However in a recent post investigator1 said: Hello, I live here in Spain and will organize the meeting. Until now we do not have one confirmation for the suggested meeting. So we may choose another date.
On 13th November I posted:
You seem to know a lot of these people. Everyone on this blog is tossing names about that mean nothing to me. Do you actually have any real idea as to who is a good guy and who is a bad guy? Might we be told please? And what evidence do you have that the bad guys are really bad and operated illegally? To my uneducated mind they have behaved just like all off-plan developers who obtain their financing to build from their purchasers. Personally I consider this dodgy but not criminally so! Perhaps when the going got tough they started to dip their hands in the till? Closing up the office and not paying the staff is not nice at all and suggests evil doing - but at the end of the day not paying your staff is a civil law problem (but doubtless is also not legal in some respects).
If you really live in Spain and near Fuengirola it would be worthwhile going to the registered offices of these companies at Playamarina (go with a couple of Guardias Civiles to command respect - and a digital camera with good close up settings) and ask to see the Company books. There should be a register of shareholders (of prime interest) and from the last balance sheet it should be possible to see if they have mortgaged the land. If so I dont believe this would be illegal per se - but the shareholders in the company (us) would be well and truly f*ck*d.
There maybe formalities to comply with to inspect company books - I dont know. You can get the guardias officially by making a denuncia (they have a tax evasion function) or unofficially by paying them a few euros explaining you need a bit of protection!! If there is any proper prima facie evidence a judge could subpoena the books?
I got a curt half line reply to this to refer me to the Spanish register of companies! To put Investigator’s posts in a more meaningful order from latest to oldest from the different illogical sub sections of this blog I copy them here descending by date (but not ordered by time inside the date):
investigator1 wrote on Nov 19
yes this is for now a very good suggestion. The investors in every country shut meet there. Why not in London near Atul and James?
investigator1 wrote on Nov 19
in the case of Fortunaland about 30 Mio. Euro had been invested.
investigator1 wrote on Nov 18
Hi, the meeting suggested in Spain is cancelled. We will set up a new one and are waiting for suggestions for a possible date.
Hi dok1930, I would appreciate if you would provide us with your summary.
(((I replied: Sherlock I will post something of possible general interest as soon as I can get my wife to do a little editing of a rough note I did send you by email yesterday in case you were able to glean anything of immediate interest from it. No, I am not suitable to be any kind of admin person or moderator! I am old and somewhat immobile, half blind and half deaf and one hand is no good - once a ten finger typist I am now reduced to one finger!
You seem to know a lot about these people. I know very little. I would assume they could be neatly placed in one of 4 categories. 1. The clerical people who kept the office running. Probably not well paid but there are lots of expats eager to do a little work, often part time, to stretch out their holidays or help their families get started in what is a not always a friendly ambiance when starting a new life or new business. 2. A sales team, probably paid on, or mainly paid on, commission and expenses. 3. A managerial group, just doing a job. Possibly sailing close to the wind from time to time (in a legal sense) but not evil. 4. The Villains. These are the scoundrels you feel should be behind bars. You seem to know them, I dont. But I can well believe they do exist. If so a few years in a Spanish jail might be good for their souls.
However, I tend to agree with Pippoz's first post on Nov 13 above. (and Liam too). I find it hard to believe that any Serious Fraud Office in any country would give this matter more than a cursory glance. These people have mislead us somewhat, they operated a version of a pyramid scheme only sustainable by recruiting new investors to cover their current operating costs and salaries etc. They do not appear to have committed major crimes towards us, their investors, (unless it can be shown that told major untruths about the land they were selling).
“Hard selling” is not a crime (unethical perhaps and hard to prove as being a crime) but their more recent contracts carry the usual warning "Do not enter into this contract without consulting your financial adviser etc". I have had much harder selling from people selling double glazing!!
Given that you are right and we really are hunting real criminals I find it impossible to imagine that they are sitting on a sack of our money waiting for us to come and get it. It will be salted away in the Cayman Islands or Costa Rica. Possibly a yacht registered in Panama in their lawyer’s name.
If the Fuengirola “police” are interested (there are 3 kinds, often overlapping: National Police, Local Police and Guardia Civil) it will primarily be to try and get assets to pay their employees who were left in the lurch and secondly to go on a fishing expedition to see if they can find other evidence of wrong doing. I imagine the tax authorities would like to be involved as well (the Guardia Civil have units that specialise in Tax Evasion and Internet crime) – and so do the National Police.
We investors own shares in a company or companies whose assets are in land. If we can force these companies into liquidation a sale of the land seems our only hope of recovering any of our money. Some of these parcels of land may have more value than others (as some may well have entered into a more advanced state of the planning permission process. Some maybe better land or better located). But land in Spain (however inhospitable) does have a value.
It seems to me that there are two issues. The vindictive attempt to get some presumed rogues behind bars - this will not be easy and in Spain will take years, by which time they will not be in Spain. Even if this were successful it would not help us one whit. Prison normally does not cure a confidence trickster, it only teaches him to be more careful when he comes out of jail. The other issue is the question of trying to recover some money. Unless it turns out that any of these alleged criminals actually had attachable assets (unlikely in my opinion as were they to own property I would expect it to be mortgaged or held by nominees) then our only hope is to force into liquidation the company we own shares in (FINCA CAZADORES SL in the case of Cazadores Reales). This would have to be a separate exercise for each development. We might indeed get a disagreeable surprise and find that these companies had taken out loans against the security of the land (this would be perfectly legal as we own unencumbered shares in the company – not shares in the land).
I am more worried that there must be thousands of Fortuna investors, yet we only know of 30! It might be hard to wind up a company when we only know of a dozen of its shareholders. I believe in Spain a shareholder has the right to 2 weeks notice of company meetings. Perhaps a judge can decree a winding up order - but this might take years! Perhaps there is a method of announcing a General Meeting of shareholders by newspaper ads but I can see this as an uphill struggle with little expectation of recovering much of our money.
To complicate matters each project seems to be ring fenced by its own land holding company. Thus any attempt to force the business into liquidation would have to be repeated for each and every project by investors in that project. This group is organized into the nationality of investors, whereas to be more logical it should be organised by projects. Thus, investors in Bella Fortuna have a mutual interest that is quite different to investors in MiraMontaña. (Apart from other considerations the early projects probably had better land – it would appear from the photos posted on this blog that the MiraMontña land is only good for a landfill).
I do have some of the old fortuna web pages saved to my PC – I do not have have Wedding Chapel page – but please IM me if anyone would like a copy of what I have. Suffice to say they were careful not to say their picturesque photos were actual photos of their projects, but they did seem very “genuine by saying such things as:
“FortunaLand actively encourages clients, their lawyers, accountants and bankers to discuss the basis for investment, or any legal or financial aspect of it. An impartial and expert opinion, that advisory professionals can recognise and depend on, can therefore be anticipated.”
The following statement Quoted from their Award Citation with Business Britain UK is misleading. It misled me into thinking I was going to get shares in a parcel of land and not a company owning the land:
“Every investor in a Fortuna project walks away with a legally notarised title deed to the land they have invested in. In order to facilitate multiple ownership of one tract of land each title deed shows ownership of "Participiones" within a company structure. That structure is the land. Therefore each participione equates to one 1m². Whether their investment is for 5 acres or just a quarter of an acre, every investment is secured by physical ownership of the title document.” So far as I remember they themselves did not say this!)))
investigator1 wrote on Nov 15
Hi Steveoliver, did you see the sample pictures of the land? Most of the land they sold to the investors is not usable for any feasible project. The planning permission they had is extended. The project is in an terrible environment a real stone dessert. Never ever a hotel guest would visit this hotel. So in fact this is a fraud also, because this land is worthless.
Hello, I live here in Spain and will organize the meeting. Until now we do not have one confirmation for the suggested meeting. So we may choose another date.
investigator1 wrote on Nov 13
Hello, this was a fraud from the beginning done by a criminal organisation. They never did never have serious and good intentions!!!! I do not know if the police in Britain are involved yet, but I hope somebody will start very soon to denounce this people and companies. Also the FSA and Institute of Chartered Accountants shut be informed. Did you see the sample pictures of the land they sold to you? This land is more or less worthless. What can you build there? If we are quick enough we may be able to get some arrests on accounts and properties of this criminals. I am very near behind them since a very long time and we will get them! But we need to speed up. Every day is counting for them.............
investigator1 wrote on Nov 13
Hello, yes they shut been cought!!!!!! James was convicted in the UK for 3 years before. If you go to the police please inform them that there are cases in the Netherlands, Italy, Germany, Ireland, Spain and EUROJUST and EUROPOL are involved.
investigator1 wrote on Nov 13
Hello, firstly I AM also in direct contact with one of the representatives of EUROJUST.
Who are you? I did not see any benefit until now from you for the community.
I am also a victim. Every investor shut do what he thinks he needs to do. My only aim is to provide as much information`s for all victims as possible, because only coordinated actions will bring success. I am investigating since more than one year on my own time and money. You shut be thankful to get this informations for free, or did I ask for your money?
investigator1 wrote on Nov 13
Hello, I did not hear this names before. But I will ask some of the staff if they know this persons, who they are and where they are now and inform you as quick as possible.
investigator1 wrote on Nov 13
Thank you very much for your information`s. If this was a crime from the beginning, and it was, the people you did deal with are also responsible. If you do not mind I would contact the notary and the lawyer and ask them in general what they did know about this crime.
investigator1 wrote on Nov 13
Hello, be very careful please!!!!! How could they come to your contact details? I am in contact with the police here in Spain. THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY DETAILS OF INVESTORS/VICTIMS AND ARE LOOKING VERY URGENTLY FOR THIS. How can such guys come to your details? It is a well known behaviour that this criminal organisations after their crimes set up companies who try to bring the angry investors under control.................The next scam.
derrymore wrote on Nov 13
what part of the police in Spain is dealing with this investigation and do you have contact details of the investigator.
investigator1 wrote on Nov ??
Hi, this authorities are active:
Dirección General de Seguros y Fondos de Pensiones
Paseo de la Castellana, 44
Tel: +34-91 339 70 00
Fax: +34-91 339 71 13
Plaza Manuel Azaña, 3
E-29006 - Málaga
COMISARÍA DE POLICÍA DE FUENGIROLA
Avda. Condes de San Isidro, 98
E-29640 - Fuengirola
investigator1 wrote on Nov 12
Hello, I live here in Spain and will organize the meeting. Until now we do not have one confirmation for the suggested meeting. So we may choose another date.
investigator1 wrote on Nov 12
Hello, I have added a picture of Ray Piper. He is living in Mijas Spain. I will try to organize his actual contact details. If you have any more information`s about "land one corporation" (registered office, number of incorporation, etc.) please publish them on this blog.
List of Authorities Investigating November 10, ’08 By Sherlock for Group Oannafortunaland Here followed a very long list of addresses which I have cut as they had some code that Blogger objected to.
DENUNCIATIONS also here TIME IS MONEY Nov 12, '08 3:39 PM by Sherlock for group oannaxfortunaland
Please, all investors shut share information's. We have some members now, but all information`s came up from me. For the police and prosecution it is NOW very important to know exactly who the investors/victims are, how much they invested, who the people are they did deal with you and to get copies of all documents, and correspondence. You all shut go to your local police and denounce the involved people and companies and send us a copy of all paperwork and a copy of your statement at the police. We will bring copies of your files to the police in Malaga and Fuengirola and will coordinate the actions and manage the activities as good as possible. We already did appoint a very professional lawyer and will start to get arrests on all accounts and assets. I am willing to build up a data base for all investors. Please send your information`s and copies to:
Being able to read these posts together like this and looking more carefully at the Group Site I have reached some conclusions which I am happy to share with you
- The pictures posted on the site mean nothing at all! The blonde lady maybe Danielle, the guys maybe who they are labelled – I am unable to say as I never met any of them. But the two pictures of land might have been taken in Arizona or Mexico or indeed some wadi in Arabia!. If one had some details of when and where (the geographic coordinates would help as one could look at the land on Google Earth) they were taken they would carry some credence. But no credence as to them being land shares Fortuna sold.
- Sherlock’s posts offer not one single solitary scrap of evidence. They are just a successive repeat of the mantra “Lock these criminals up – they are scampsters”.
- Sherlock affirms he does indeed have evidence (how else can one “press charges”?) – but he does not tell us what this is – despite the fact he has several times said he had provided informations. What informations I might ask?!.
- Sherlock affirms that all the Fortuna/Oanna staff were involved in this “scam” as he calls it. I cannot believe that some 40(?) people from the office boy up were involved in this “international conspiracy” worthy of the attention of Eurojust, Interpol and the Serious Crime Offices of police forces ranging from Germany to Dubai. I find this fatuous and childish to put it mildly.
- The hard-sell sales people probably sold double-glazing in their earlier lives. To these people selling is just a job motivated by a commission on sales. People selling double glazing, new gutters, time shares, or Fortuna Land are all the same breed. Unethical by our standards, liars maybe. But not criminals. Just people earning a living using their persuasive skills.
- A 40 person office like Fortuna had would typically include one or two managerial people and a couple of “Senior Sales Consultants”, some salespeople (perhaps working by phone from home – as was Paul Fitzpatrick who sold me Mira Montaña from his garden in Dublin). The rest would be people like typists, telephone operators, record keepers and mail handlers. Typically in any organization like this the turnover would be high with people joining and leaving the whole time. And Sherlock thinks that all the staff were criminals?! Does he mean they became a criminal the day they were recruited……..? I may be stupid, but not so stupid as to believe that!
- I see that Sherlock has a huge grudge to deal with. So do I, but in my case the grudge is against myself! I cannot subscribe to the idea that getting even guilty people (if there are any) locked up in prison is going to help us one single whit!
- Even if the land is like the picture posted on the forum (which I doubt!!) such land is valuable providing the location is reasonably near an urban area. From my present roof terrace (the most northernmost residential building in Jerez) I can see a 20 acre piece of land. Two weeks ago it was a wilderness like Sherlock’s photos. The earthmovers moved in and today it is a billiard table with surveyors and engineers marking out future streets, drainage and services ditches. The stereotype Spanish manaña image is a myth – when Spaniards move they sure do move fast!
- I invested in CR and MM – in both cases I just own shares in the respective land holding companies NOT IN THE LAND.. I presume this same system applies to all Fortuna’s projects. Thus, there is one major question to clear up. Do these 5 or 6 companies still hold any equity. I suspect they do not. I would be surprised if they had not borrowed money up to the hilt using the land as security (i.e. a mortgage deal). In this case we may just own shares in an empty shell of a company. This scenario is depressing (to put it mildly) but it is no worse than owning shares in a gold mining company in California in 1850 that never paid a dividend as it never found gold. (One such one dollar share certificate was sold a week or two ago on E-Bay for $5).
- Our only possible hope is that these companies still own the land, and that there is no charge on it. In this case there is a remote chance that the shareholders meeting with a legal quorum might take control of the company. In this case in 5, 10 or 50 years time it will “mature” and our grandchildren may receive a small windfall..
- I do not quit till the fight is over. If the retirement village was a viable proposition (and I believe it was) then the two companies may well have not mortgaged the land. In this case there is a ray of hope. Investigator says Phil Cottrell is a crook but somebody (Fintan I think) said Phil was prepared to continue to move the project on. Provided the land has not been mortgaged, this is indeed a viable proposition. As things stand at the moment the Junta de Andalucia (and indeed the central government) would look at any endeavour of this kind with the most favourable eyes and planning permission would be a mere formality. . I have talked to 2 or 3 land developers near where I live. They do not want to build, but they are investing heavily in infrastructure ready to take advantage of the next housing boom (in 2010 maybe!) In Spain today we are struggling to create jobs any project like the retirement complex would be received with open arms. It would also receive regional or central government financial help.
- I am totally ignorant about the personalities involved in this affair. Atul, James Savasitham, Jerom(m)e Andre(é) & wife Daniel(l)e. . Sufian tells me that Jerome (supposedly the arch-criminal?) had his assets in the name of his wife. If this is true (other evidence suggests it is) then if there might indeed have been a criminal intent to defraud. If there was no criminal attempt then surely Jerome is our ally and he is our best hope to recover any cash from Danielle, his estranged wife and presumably his arch enemy.. These thought tend to put me into the world of money laundering and the need for a forensic accountant (thank you again johnf999!!)
- On the subject of money laundering this was a brilliant cross-roads. In the case of CR and MM no single question was ever asked about the provenance of my funds. So far as Fortuna was concerned they might have come straight out of Colombian drugland via a Mafioso bank or one of the many money exchange companies that do not ask questions either.
- I believe that about 2000 people have invested. It is pretty pathetic that we only have managed to collect a group of 60.. It is even more pathetic that the Multipy forum does not have one single post in most of its sub-forums!
You remain the one member shown as “Banned”. How strange. I would have thought you would be the last person to be banned as everyone knows you are the richest nation per capita on earth . (Well I havnt looked it up but that is what we all think!).
The only person who has contributed a grain of common sense is John Frith who posted
Johnf999 wrote on Nov 19
What needs to happen is that Forensic Accountants are hired to produce a report on what the true situation is, and to produce evidence of criminal activity. Only then is it worth considering hiring lawyers.
I laughed at his use of the word forensic and said he must be a pathologist and he referred me to this definition: Forensic accounting are the specialty practice area of accountancy that describes engagements that result from actual or anticipated disputes or litigation. "Forensic" means "suitable for use in a court of law", and it is to that standard and potential outcome that forensic accountants generally have to work.
Also Bernice made massive sense where I have highlighted below (the fact that there has been no response from Sherlock makes me doubt his sincerity or his commitment to the cause).
bcs51 wrote on Nov 21
Hi to all,
I have not been contacted by this mediation firm yet, but if they are sincere then they would not mind coming to a group meeting, to explain what they can offer!! I invested in 6 plots in Cazadores,and it was Ray Piper who took me to the land. I only contacted the office 2 weeks ago, and they told me someone would call me back. This has happened so quick, it looks like I have lost my pension,and I have no money to pay anybody up front. Can anybody tell me how this happened? Wouldn't the notary have the list of investers, and if fortunaland are now being investigated by the local authorities, shouldn't they be able to obtain them? I hope a meeting will be organised soon, possibly somewhere central, like Birmingham perhaps. Do we have any chance of getting our monies back??????
This is all far too long to read. I hope you have had better sense than to do so!! I wrote it to clean out my own mind!! I do not believe there are great expectations of recovering our money. Our only very remote hope is to retain ownership in the land for the benefit of our grandchildren!
I thought I might post this document on the forum but it is far too long and longwinded but I will post it on my blog at http://fortuna-don.blogspot.com/
Friday, 21 November 2008
What is below in No 1 post was put together in a hurry and only later saw all the typos so I hope I will be forgiven. Yet = get and O = I abd so forth. Yes, there is another common one: abd = and!! Please feel free to post anything you want here. I hope other people will see it too. I wont take criticism personally and ask people not to make posts on based on sexism, racsism, religion etc (I see I nearly broke this golden rule by commenting on the common talmudic concept of "Eye for an Eye").